Friday, February 8, 2013

Law Enforcement Fail in Torrance

This is why the Founders reserved for We The People the un-infringeable right to keep and bear arms and why solely relying on professional law enforcement for security is such a huge mistake:
Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.
The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.  
It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside.
Local, state and federal authorities are involved in a massive search for Christoper Jordan Dorner, 33, a former Los Angeles Police Department officer who is believed to have threatened "unconventional and asymmetrical warfare" against police in an online manifesto, and was suspected of shooting three police officers, one of whom died, early Thursday in Riverside County.
Dorner also is suspected of killing a couple in Orange County earlier this week.
Sources said the Los Angeles police detectives involved in the Torrance shooting were on protective detail for a police official named in the suspect's supposed manifesto, which was posted on what authorities believe is his Facebook page.
A second shooting, involving Torrance police officers, occurred about 5:45 a.m. at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street in Torrance. No injuries were reported in that incident.
Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's. "Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time."
Not directly related...except that police failed to properly PID their target as hostile and instead shot up innocent civilians. Not once, but twice.  The common thread in these shootings in the police themselves. Now anyone want to take bets as to whether or not criminal charges will be filed, or whether or not the officers in question will be held liable as would a civilian?

Photo credit: Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
I have an idea...why doesn't the sheriff call out the posse?  In not doing so, he lets an us-against-them mentality fester, endangering the safety of his officers, and evidently, the safety of the civilians who fund his and his officers' salaries. To say nothing of endangering the legitimacy of his department.

Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier when one has co-opted the hay in looking for the needle.


Elusive Wapiti said...

This incident hits home for me because those women in that pickup was me...about 24 years ago.

Then, I was employed throwing papers from a slow-moving pickup truck in a vibrant neighborhood at 4 AM.

Nice going fellas.

Christina said...

My husband and I were talking about this today.

We were talking about the ex-officer who accused the LAPD of corruption and abuse of power and these two occurrences.

Apparently, there was a lot of talk at work, and one guy said this is why we need to be armed. But someone else pointed out - what's the point in being armed? If you shoot a cop, you get the death penalty. Are you really going to shoot a police officer even in self-defense when THEY are the ones investigating you?

These incidences really bring to the forefront - how do we protect ourselves from a corrupt force? Firearms really are not the answer, and these people know it. If these cops get away with this, what's stopping a cop from breaking into our unarmed home under some pretense and shooting to kill?

0x0014 said...

Cops, in important ways, really are just another gang. Threaten them and they'll try to strike first, and too bad if you're a citizen in the way.

Police forces need to be scaled way, way, way down, most "criminal" behavior needs to be decriminalized, and people need to start looking after their own day-to-day security rather than outsourcing it to violent, unaccountable, and ultimately self-serving organizations.

Christina said...

and people need to start looking after their own day-to-day security rather than outsourcing it to violent, unaccountable, and ultimately self-serving organizations.

Yeah - it doesn't work if people are no longer ALLOWED to look after their own security.

You have people who shoot intruders into their own homes being tried for homocide.

You have documented procedures to NOT engage a threat to you - and if you do, and someone gets hurt, you are liable for damages.

Who would want to take matters into their own hands when helping gets you worse than letting the guy go?

ray said...

the rise of the american police-state in the early twentieth century exactly parallels the rise of collective female power

Prohibition = first wave, Drug War (on men) = second wave, Sex War/Gynogulag = third wave

the millions of "laws," the vast mancages and powerful prison-guards unions . . . these all came into being, and multiplied, with each increase in both individual and collective female power -- the Gyno-Gulag is an expression of female control and domination

the government is merely a shadow-agency of Team Woman, and of the "elite" males who profit with Team Woman (financially, socio-politically, etc) by the mass-criminalization and mass-degradation of boys and men

nice going folks enjoy them new SUVs turn the radios up loud! it'll drown out the screaming

Elusive Wapiti said...

@ 0x0014

"Threaten them and they'll try to strike first, and too bad if you're a citizen in the way."

I am significantly discomfited by the emphasis on officer safety at the expense of citizen rights. Seems to me that citizen rights must come first; we don't have a wartime ROE in the CONUS nor should we in any situation outside of martial law.

Case in point: this one. The police felt threatened, they shot up some civilians.

@ Christina,

"You have documented procedures to NOT engage a threat to you"

No doubt, for a more distributed security scheme to work, there needs to be a scaling back of the State and the presumption that only the State is authorized to employ deadly force.

Florida's "Castle Doctine" is but one such effort to restore/protect principles that used to be in place before professional police were introduced to the mix in the late 1800s.

Those folks being tried for you happen to know if they were acquitted by a jury?

That's why jury trials are so gives the People the ability to judge laws that the government imposes upon them, as well judge the applicability of a general law to a specific situation.

Elusive Wapiti said...

Something else too: This incident strikes me as exactly how an insurgent guerrilla campaign is run.

Agent provocateur threatens the government and makes it overreact by swatting a fly with a sledgehammer, harming civilians and therefore injuring its legitimacy.

This in a neighborhood like Torrance where the police probably don't enjoy too swell a relationship with the civilians that surround them anyways.

elucidavi said...

I used to live in Torrance and I noticed the police have automatic weapons at their disposal, which I found a bit odd. We constantly hear from certain elements the question of why we civilians “need” this or that semi-automatic rifle, yet these cops have H&K MP5’s, which are class 3 weapons (short barreled, capable of automatic/select fire, etc.). Do they really “need” a machine gun to issue the occasional traffic citation...and how many bystanders could have been killed or wounded had they grabbed the “big” guns?